MS, Mindset & the Power of Daily Choices

MS, Mindset & the Power of Daily Choices

Episode 193 – Podcast Transcript

[(0:25)] Stephanie Buxhoeveden: Welcome to the Can Do MS podcast. I am your host, Stephanie Buxhoeveden. I live with MS, and I am also a clinician and MS researcher.

Today, I am thrilled to be joined by Amy Behimer, who’s a pharmacist, a certified health coach, and she also lives with primary progressive MS. She is here to talk about something we all wrestle with, habits, why they are so hard to build, especially with chronic illness, and how to make them work in real life.

Hi, Amy. Thank you so much for being here today.

[(0:50)] Amy Behimer: Oh, I am so excited. Thank you for having me, Stephanie.

[(0:52)] Stephanie: Yeah. Let’s start off with your personal journey. Why are you so passionate about habits?

[(0:59)] Amy: Oh, my goodness. Well, we are brought here together by a diagnosis. You know, I live with primary progressive MS, for… going on 14 years now. And the reason I love habits and really what I call “autoimmune health” versus an “autoimmune disease”, which is often what I know my brain was completely preoccupied with when I got that diagnosis, um, is really because our habits and the things we do have control over with a diagnosis where we may not have control, those are the things we can actually shift and focus on. And when we do, it’s pretty magical how life can get a little bit better. Just that intentionality of, “Wow, what are the ways I could think? How do I want to feel? What can I do or not do?”, um, put that experimenter’s mindset on and- and really lean into what I call “controlling the controllables”, uh, our lifestyle. Um, it really does end up having such an impact on our life with, you know, a diagnosis, like I say, that we would not order off a menu, most likely.

[(2:08)] Stephanie: Oh, absolutely not. But you are right. Having control over one little thing makes a huge difference.

[(2:14)] Amy: Yeah. And really, when you look at the, you know, statistics of what part of our diagnosis is made up from our genes, you know, that part we cannot control, um, it’s actually more in the 10 to 30% range, which sounds like a lot until you flip it and say, “Okay, so 70 to 90% of our experience potentially is somewhat under at least our influence.” Then that’s a lot more empowering to look at versus, again, the part that there’s just nothing we can do anything about.

[(2:45)] Stephanie: Yeah, I really love that.

So before we jump into how, why are habits so tough, even for people who are generally pretty motivated?

[(2:56)] Amy: Okay, what a- what a big question, a good question, and really, habits are tough, and they get a bad rep sometimes because we have a human brain. And really, there’s a researcher, author, maybe some of the listeners have read “Tiny Habits”, his name is BJ Fogg, and he describes it the best when he says, “The problem with change is not us.” Like, we are not the problem. our approach to change is. And so it is a design flaw because we have human brains. It’s not a personal flaw, so so many of us think, “Oh, my gosh, I should just be able to change this or do this differently,” and the human brain is really designed to do one of three things, and if people are out there and, like the science behind things, it’s called the “motivational triad”, they are… our brains are wired to seek pleasure, avoid pain, and exert as little energy as possible. And all of these things really helped us get to where we are, they helped us, um, to survive in a tough world, but now that we are in this modern world, our brains are still trying to do that. They’re trying to keep us from changing, and we don’t need them to anymore. We want to make changes, and we want to do it in a way that works with our brain, and so that’s why it’s so hard is that, again, we’re humans, and we just are not taught this stuff. I always say that, you know, when I’m teaching or working with my clients, that we’re not taught this stuff, so if we give ourselves a break and say, “Oh, there is some things I could learn here to work with my brain,” then instantly, you know, we feel a little bit, hopefully, a little bit of relief on that.

[(4:35)] Stephanie: Yeah. And that flexibility is so important because there is no one, like, perfect plan that’s going to work for you every single day, especially when you have MS, right? You know, yesterday, I walked over 10,000 steps. Today, I woke up, and I was like, “Nope, today is a yoga stretchy day,” right?

[(4:52)] Amy: Yes. Well, and there’s so many, like, tips and tricks and hacks, and just the idea that we’re just missing a tip or a trick…

[(5:00)] Stephanie: Mm.

[(5:01)] Amy: …or an idea that can be, um, you know, shared in a 90-second reel or on an image on Facebook or Instagram, the idea that we are just missing this one tip…

[(5:14)] Stephanie: Mm.

[(5:15)] Amy: …can be so detrimental because, you know, it’s not the tip or the trick. It’s not the information that’s missing. There is enough information. It’s free, there’s too much information, and it keeps us kind of paralyzed. It’s more… like you said, the flexibility of, “What do I do with that information? How do I incorporate it into my life? And how do I make it a habit?”, which is why I love habits, because when they become more habitual, they become who we are and not these things that we have to think about doing.

[(5:45)] Stephanie: Yes. I love that. Uh, habits, not- [clears throat] habits, not life hacks, right? And especially that- that external quick-fix culture of, you know, everybody is on GLP-1s and they are getting skinny so fast, and this is like an all-or-nothing world, I feel like, we live in, and it’s just… makes me feel guilty all the time.

[(6:06)] Amy: Yeah. And if you’re ever reading through, the amount of… I think the, you know, people writing articles and, um, sharing content out there, they know what we like as humans, so you’ll notice everything is titled as “The 3 Habits for…” or, you know, they- they catch us with these, “God, that sounds so simple, so let me just see what they are.” And even sometimes I’ll use that, but then the second, hopefully, that you spend more than 5 to 10 seconds with me, we’re gonna shift really quick into, “What is that different approach? What is the how that actually helps us choose the ones that we want to change with intention,” you know, not just, like you said, because somebody said to do it? Choose the right ones and then stick with it and figure out how to make it happen.

[(6:54)] Stephanie: Yeah. And you specifically focus on, sort of, six lifestyle domains that can complement the disease-modifying therapy and the medical treatments we get. Could you walk us through each one of those briefly?

[(7:08)] Amy: Yes, absolutely. So, the… I’m a pharmacist, uh, for almost 20 years. I’ve been coaching for about six or seven, and so the way I like to think of them in my brain is we have our DMTs, our disease-modifying therapies, and I feel like we all understand or can see, “Okay, this really can impact the future of our health with this disease,” and so I like to call them DMHs, or disease-modifying habits, because it gives them the respect and the credit that they deserve. And the good news is the… I’m gonna go through these six areas. I call them “spokes” because I use the, um, framework of the Habit Hub for Autoimmune Health, and so the spokes are not things that you haven’t heard before, so that’s the good news. Like, you know, there’s not some piece that we’re missing. It’s things you have heard before, it’s maybe just put in a framework that helps see how they all complement each other, that helps see how we can’t focus on just one area and neglect the others because, like I say, that will be a bumpy ride.

And so the six areas or six spokes of what we can control, you know, controlling the controllables, 1 is our mindset. And that is something that sometimes does not feel as in our control, but once we learn how those are just habitual thoughts and we are having habitual feelings, all of a sudden we can apply this “how” of changing habits to… I call them the inner habits, the inner things that are happening. So mindset is number one, and while it’s its own spoke, its own area, it’s also influencing all the rest. So, um- so as we talk about these things, mindset really can- can play such a huge role. And that’s number 1.

Number 2 is food. And so likely, you, um, have heard a time or two or experienced is yourself that what you eat or don’t eat can im- impact how you feel and- and what happens. So food is a big one, and it’s one we get to practice all day long. So I always say it’s a- it’s a fun one for that.

Um, number 3 is movement. So again, not anything new. We know that moving, uh, more, or for some people, moving less or moving just better can help us feel better and function better.

Um, rest and relaxation is number 4, so that includes sleep and just how do we really, um, make sure that we are resting in a way that is a, uh, a benefit to our bodies.

Um, number 5 is connections. So relationships with others, relationships with ourselves, sometimes that’s a relationship with our diagnosis.

And the 6th one is “good” stresses. And “good” has quotes around it because “good” stresses are those challenges we take on that we know that on the other side of it, we will end up a bit stronger, a bit more resilient. Um, most people understand the idea that when we lift weights, we are breaking down our muscle. That’s a stress to our muscle but they come back stronger, but we can approach our, uh, emotions that way, you know, feeling tough feelings to come back stronger. Um, and there’s metabolic good stresses. Um, so various- various… again, back to the tips, uh, tricks, and hacks, things that we can do in the name of a challenge that can help us feel better.

[(10:25)] Stephanie: Yeah, and I love that range and that flexibility. And, you know, I think at any given moment, we’re maybe doing better in some than others, so it’s great to sort of check in. And, you know, I think you’ve said it best, where the point is not to go to extremes or- or take an all-or-nothing, but just recognizing that consistency is gonna win out over extremes. This is a marathon, not a sprint, right?

[(10:52)] Amy: Always. And- and exactly what you said, when we look at those six areas, I bet you, if I said, “What is an area that you are nailing right now that you feel gives you energy and doesn’t drain it?”, we all have one that jumps to mind. And starting there, so much about, um, positive psychology and not negating the things that are going well, which our human brain, again, will try to make us do. It will try to have us look at the negative and how everything is going wrong, but when we have these six areas, we find the one that, “Gosh, I am doing well in this area,” or “This- this area does give me energy,” it helps us, um, calm down a little bit, and it helps put us in a more, uh, productive place to then look at the areas that maybe are draining our energy so that we can make a plan, um, to- to shift that.

[(11:45)] Stephanie: Yeah. And as you put it, habits are skills that we build. So how do you start building those skills?

[(11:53)] Amy: Oh, my goodness, it is a skill. I- I like to call it the “number 1 skill”, this habit change, becaue, you know, New Year’s resolutions every year, it’s like 70% of people want to eat better, 60%, you know, and this number changes year to year, they want to move more or move differently, and when you ask people, “Okay. This year, do you want to learn a new- a new skill for your New Year’s resolution?”, only 20% of people say they do. And that’s such a missed opportunity because if we learn this skill that we’re talking about, this different approach to habit change, we can apply it to all the other habits that we want to make or break, and so, you know, in terms of, “How do we get started?”, I think the first is, kind of, in that exact phrase, “How do we get started?” We need to start. And I think sometimes, we need to maybe do something different, decide to do something different, to really mark that you’re starting this new way of living, this new way of seeing your health and your life and your habits in a way that feels good. And that doesn’t mean, “Oh, God, I start today and then I never eat, um, a dessert again,” or “I never miss a workout.” That is the complete opposite, but it’s more a starting point that, “Okay, we’re going to do something different because we want different.”

Um, so that’s the first thing, is actually taking some sort of action to signal to yourself, to signal to your brain, to have a date to look back on and say, “Wow, this is where I started to take on this new approach to health with an autoimmune disease.”

Um, and the other piece that I always say to start with is, really, to go all in on- on one thing, so maybe it’s one of those areas that we’re talking about, or, you know, if I ask you, you know, “What is one thing that you wish you were doing differently?”, trust your gut. Whatever that thing is, how do we calm down the overwhelm of all the things we could be doing and just figure out how to stay consistent and make some real meaningful progress in just one area?

[(14:04)] Stephanie: Yeah. And that mind shift that you describe is so important. And, you know, you and I have had many conversations in the past, and- and the way that you emphasize reframing the thought, right, like, “I have to do yoga because if I don’t, I know that my muscle spasticity is gonna be bad,” into saying, “I am a person who gets to support my body in this way by dedicating 30 minutes to doing something that’s kind and compassionate to myself.”

[(14:38)] Amy: Totally. And like you mentioned, the people… a lot of people have heard, probably, the “I have to” versus “I get to.”

[(14:44)] Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

[(14:45)] Amy: And that is a tip or trick, or a hack, right, to say, “I get to.” But I think what the difference is and where most people feel frustrated is that if we treat it as a tip or a trick and don’t recognize that we have to make that the habitual thought, the habitual feeling of- of gratitude to get to be working on this thing, then that is when it really starts to change. So if you have ever heard that before, of reframing it as, you know, “I have to” to “I get to”, that’s just step 1. But then this different approach is then saying, “Okay, how do we work with our brain and actually strengthen the neural pathway?” that first goes to “I get to” instead of “I have to”? That’s, like, the work behind it. You know, when they… you turned in your- your test to a teacher and maybe it had the math answer, but they are like, “Oh, you have to show your work,” so, like, that’s something that I’m always trying to do with this different approach, is show the work behind how we get there so that these things, these great ideas that we see actually become incorporated and become the habitual thing that our brains and bodies go towards. I don’t know if that makes sense.

[(16:01)] Stephanie: It does make sense. Yeah. And so I’m thinking of, you know, one recent habit change that I made, um, is this current job I’m in is a desk job, and that’s the first desk job I’ve really had in my life, and I’ve noticed, um, sort of what a negative impact all the sitting has had on my legs, right? So my muscles definitely are tighter after a day of sitting, my body is just achier after a day of sitting. I, uh, finally folded under the pressure of social media, but in a good way, and bought one of those walking pads for my office, because I would try to get outside…

[(16:39)] Amy: Mm-hmm.

[(16:40)] Stephanie: …and walk, but, you know, in the summer, it’s too hot, in the winter, it’s too cold. There was always, like, a barrier that would prevent me from doing this much movement as I ideally would get to to- to help my body, um, and so I purchased it. I think it’s 60 days now. It’s been about two months, and I’ve walked 55 miles on it. Um…

[(17:02)] Amy: Holy moly [crosstalk]

[(17:05)] Stephanie: So that’s like, you know, a simple habit change. It’s been great for my physical health, for- for my mental health. Like you said, you know, I- I purchased it so I have the purchase date, so I know where- where my benchmark was.

[(17:17)] Amy: Yeah.

[(17:18)] Stephanie: And- and I can definitely, you know, now that I’ve incorporated this habit, look back and say, “This is something I get to do.” It’s in a way that works for me and around my symptoms and around my day-to-day schedule. And it’s made a huge difference, so that’s just one tiny… that’s just one domain of the six, um, but it really works.

[(17:39)] Amy: I love that. And I bet you that it even bleeds over to other spokes and other domains, because…

[(17:44)] Stephanie: Oh, yeah.

[(17:45)] Amy: …we think that we’re doing one for one reason, and likely, there are… when we go looking for, “Okay, what are the benefits of this thing?”, we can… I always encourage, you know, my clients ahead of time, “Let’s predict what we… what’s out our ‘why’ behind this? What do we think we’re doing?”, and so we’ll have these objective ones, like you said, miles walked, and those are really awesome for our brain to see and to track progress and to see that, but we also need to include other, I call them, “measures that actually matter”, you know, the- things that matter, what are the subjective things around, “You may not be able to throw a number on the way your back doesn’t feel or the way that you, um, you know, are- are more limber, or maybe you’re in a better mood when you go out for dinner after- after the job because you’ve been moving already. And so really having those different… finding all the ways it benefits you really helps us build that case for ourselves so that when you go to stand up, and your brain, which is very human, the days that it doesn’t want to exert energy, you know, tries to say, “Oh, maybe I won’t do it today,” if you’ve spent time, really, like, tying it to those benefits, then subtly, your brain will answer back, like, “Oh, no, I want to do this.”

[(19:05)] Stephanie: Yeah. Especially when you can not watch your Netflix show unless you are moving. That’s my… that’s my new rule. [laughs]

[(19:12)] Amy: I love that one. I love that one. No, but I think rules can be one of the most precious gifts we give to ourselves. They sound- they sound very, um, you know, rigid, but a personal policy or a rule that we set for ourselves, set with so much love and intention, it really helps us conserve energy because you don’t have to decide over and over. It’s like you kind of made the decision, and you follow the rule. It’s kind of fun.

[(19:39)] Stephanie: Yeah, it is kind of fun. But, uh, you know, this is something I have always struggled with, right, because as I’m sure you have… you live with MS, and many of our listeners obviously do, as well, knowing whether this is a time to push ourselves and overcome those feelings of wanting to maybe not move or not do anything, or whether it’s, to your point, um… That rest is productive, whether this is… it’s okay to rest. So how do you know whether you push, pivot, move, rest? Um, I know I don’t always get it right.

[(20:15)] Amy: Yes, that’s a great… I love that, and I… it’s something that I created a tool for, which I would love to share because when we… you’ll notice, like, we have a framework I mentioned, the Habit Hub for Autoimmune Health, when our brains, um, can get behind, like, a framework or a tool, it really helps us remember them, and it really helps us pull them out and use them, and they become, again, part of who we are.

So this is a tool, this is a framework, hopefully easy to remember, you’ll hear it once and maybe feel inspired to give it a try, but to answer that question for you that you just asked, I will share a couple examples, but the- the tool is called “STAR”, S-T-A-R, so however we need to remember STAR.

Um, the first thing is let’s say that we are, um… I’m using an example for movement, and let’s say I had planned to go for a walk, and this is a very real example that comes up. I have now my plan, I’m getting off of work, and I’m going to go for a walk. If we… let’s say that I’m also, you know, not feeling super great, and that question you asked, “How do I know? Do I go? Do I not go?”

The S of STAR is to stop. Okay? So create that pause. Create that intention to really let yourself have a moment so that you’re responding and not reacting. And so that’s the S. Stop, and let’s acknowledge, “Okay, I’m about to make a decision here. Do I want to push? Do I want to pivot? Do I want to give myself grace? Do I want to get myself… you know, or have the grit to keep going?”

The secone one is to Take. The T is Take. It could be take a breath, it could be take a sip of water, it could be anything to shift yourself from the state that you’re in to maybe give yourself a little different perspective, to tap into the part of your brain that is higher-functioning and, kind of, not your primal piece of your brain, but to just kind of switch it up, take a breath. Breath is an easy one we can always do, but it could also be, again, take- take a look outside. Take something to, again, pair it with Stop.

The A is to Ask yourself a really good question. And, you know, advice and dips and tricks, they’re really brittle, so if I had a advice to take a walk every day, that may not deal with the realities of what I’m living with, and so ask yourself a really good question. And a good question could be, “What would love do?”, or “What am I really craving right now?”, or “What- what does my, uh, right leg for me, what does my right leg want me to know about taking this walk?” So asking yourself a really good question, and we’re asking ourselves because we have a lot more wisdom and answers than we give ourselves credit for, we just don’t often stop to ask.

And the R of STAR is Respond with love. Respond with love. And the important part if this is there are two kinds of love that we can give ourselves. We can give ourselves tough love, which, for me, maybe just didn’t feel like taking a walk or I was a little tired but I didn’t really have a good reason not to, then I give myself a little tough love. And I might say, “You know what? Put your shoes on, get out there, and you’re gonna love it. Give- give your mom a call and enjoy it.” Or, let’s say that I was tripping a little more that normal, or, you know, my right foot, really, when I ask it what it wanted to do, it said, “No, I really would rather rest.” That would… I would respond with gentle love, and I would say, “You know what? You had this plan, but I am going to respond today with some gentle love and do some stretches instead or go watch some Netflix.” what- whatever- whatever that is.

And so that STAR can be used for any single time you feel like you’ve set a habit goal, you- you have this intention to do something different and you feel like potentially, energy is not there, or, “Do I push? “Do I…” like I said to you… like you said, “Do you push? Do you pivot?” Um, you know, what that- what that is.

[(24:19)] Stephanie: Yeah. And I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody put that as nicely as you have. Like, it really makes me feel very seen. You know, the- the “respond with love” is something I know I’ve never heard before, but it- it really, like, it really touches me.

[(24:38)] Amy: Aww. You know, I- I love the- the work of positive psychology and character strengths and, you know, really finding what’s good in us, and there are- there are 24 diffferent strengths in it. That came to me, love is my number 1, and I just… you know, it- it’s interesting. I’m like, “How do I frame this in we’re always loving ourselves but with two different results?” And sometimes, an exact example can be a different outcome. You know, you can ask yourself the exact same question on two different days, and your response with love is different.

[(25:13)] Stephanie: Oh, yes, for sure. [chuckles]

[(25:16)] Amy: And- and, you know, a quick food one that- that, um, just to show STAR [inaudible] but he’s like, “Okay. How else could I use this?”, you know, I tend to have some rules around not eating a, um, large amount of sugar, mainly because I feel terrible, I tend to then overdo it. And so, in general, I don’t really eat sugar during the- the weekdays, let’s say, let’s say, if that’s what we’re going towards. And my stepdad was turning 80, and my husband went and got what works for me, which, tends to be, I don’t eat gluten, so gluten-free, dairy-free dessert. And according to this rule, I don’t really eat dessert during the week. And so I’m sitting there, and I’m like, “Wait. But he’s celebrating his 80th birthday.” You know, I’d… so, STAR, Stop. Take a breath, ask myself, “Do I… Will I look back on this, and will I beat myself up or be upset that I enjoyed this 80th birthday celebration cake with him?” I responded with so much love of, “No, I’m gonna enjoy it, and I’m going to sing to him.” And, you know, so, again, it can be used for all these different areas and really help us start to trust ourselves as- as the- the inner wise human that we are.

[(26:34)] Stephanie: Yeah. And I’m learning a lot from you. I hope the audience is, too. Um, but learning alone isn’t enough. You have to actually act, and the acting is just as important as learnign. So what advice do you have for people who might get stuck or don’t know how to begin?

[(26:52)] Amy: There is… that’s a good question. That’s a really good question. Um, there is a field or res- again, I keep polling the research, and I know, people, you… if- if you don’t like- if you don’t like science, then- then usually, they’re… people don’t like talking to you, but I hear from so many people, they like to hear the “why” behind it. But there is research on change, you know, all this stuff we’re talking about, and that we spend so much time consuming, that’s one of the problems, is we just… we- we need to learn more. And so flipping the… people have, like… they heard the 80-20 rule, so giving that a flip is the 20-80 rule. So for… try considering, every 20%, the things that you learn, so do you attend the Can Do webinar? Do you listen to this podcast? Do you read a book that you really like? Um, try not to learn anything else until you’ve spent 80% of your time putting it into action, you know, really doing something with that information and learning from how it went when you’re- when you’re using it in your days.

And so that could be, you know, reaching out for support. I mean, I think that the human brain, the thing that we’re talking about, the approach, the human brain also tries to tell us that we should able to do this kind of stuff on our own, but really using people that you know or people that you trust to help you actually get into that action and talk about it.

I mean, the very first thing that can help all of us that we resist is setting a goal. And, you know, there are… I think it’s 87% of people, if you walk up to them on the street and say, “What’s your goal?”, they don’t have a goal, top of mind. And so if you’re in that 13% that has a goal, then that is amazing. But the most people listening don’t have that first goal, and so having a goal can feel like, “Oh, my gosh, it’s kind of scary,” but that really is what breaks open the rest, because the second we say, “Okay, I want something,” can be acknowledged, “I must need some help to get it,” because otherwise, if I knew how to get this goal, I would have it. And so then, we start to look for, “What are the things that we could learn again and pair with action? Who could we learn from? Who could we work with to help us actually reach that goal?” So the goal really is number 1, I mean, as scary as that is, and we can work to, you know, make that goal really good, you know, ’cause some- some goals are great. Uh, a lot of- a lot of my clients will say, like, “I have heard about smart goals forever, but this is different.” Like, we need to be able to have a really good goal that we then get super, um, committed to following through on.

You know, we’ve trained our brain probably our whole life to say we want something, and then we just kind of let it… uh, we let ourselves kind of forget about it. And so we kind of commit… we pick a goal that we’re- we’re gonna stick with it until we figure it out how to move towards it because when you do that, then we actually start to train our brains. Again, the habit of, “If I put something out there and I put it in writing and I say it to somebody, then I’m going to get creative to stick with it.” And goals, you know… that doesn’t mean that you can’t refine a goal as- as it goes, but really, the first step is just getting it out there.

So I think that is our “do” of the day, we write a goal down related to our health.

[(30:12)] Stephanie: Nice. And you have a- a great tool for people who don’t know where to begin, right?

[(30:18)] Amy: I do, I do. The- the- the six areas that we talked about, um, like I mentioned, it could be, if you look at that, you’re like, “I don’t know where to start.” Um, I created a quiz, seven questions, takes about three minutes, it pulls in the science behind, “How do we know where to start? What would be the- the best placefor us to start?”, and it lands you in one of those six key areas. And when you get that area, you can, you know, of course, check in, “Does that make sense? Is this- is this what I’m wanting?”, but the quiz results also give you the what, why, and how of getting started to getting that goal down, and really, um, yeah, that first step to say, “I’m going to go all in and make some changes in this area because I have a pretty good hunch that it’s gonna help me in the long run and today.”

[(31:10)] Stephanie: Yeah. And we are going to link to that quiz and- and other resources in the episode notes. Um, so it’s gonna be, uh, I think a really great resource for our audience. And I really hope they check it out, um, but I love the entire message that you bring. You know, we’re all humans, we’re all growing and learning and progressing, um, and to lean into that and- and to support each other, but also to show the same support to yourself that you would show to a friend living with MS.

[(31:41)] Amy: I love that you said- you said “progressing”, because I was in physical therapy the other day and- and she said something. She was, “And you’re progressing.” And- and I don’t know about anybody else, but we hear the word, “progression”, we’re like, “What do you mean we’re…” She’s like, “No. No, progressing in a good way.” So yeah, we take that control of the word, “progression”, and yeah, progressing and moving forward, and, you know, this is not about perfection. Like, this truly… that starting today, you know, we just slowly start to, you know, build this compound interest of tiny shifts that really, really do add up over time. I mean, the- the number 1 play, I call… I have this strategy, playbook, I call it, the ABC habit playbook, of the strategies that work. And the number 1 that we use over and over is called “Trust in the Tiny”. And so whatever you take away from today, you know, trust that, small steps really do add up over time. And, um, yeah, that- that trust can really combat our brain when it tries to tell us, that “Oh, that little bit isn’t gonna make a difference.” It’s like, it really will, I promise.

[(32:46)] Stephanie: Yes. Thank you so much, Amy, for being here and for talking to us today.

[(32:50)] Amy: Thank you so much for having me. I love Can Do so much. Love you, guys.

[(32:55)] Stephanie: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Can Do MS podcast. If you liked this episode, please leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. We really appreciate your feedback. We’d also like to thank our generous sponsors for their support of this episode of the Can Do MS podcast. Until next time, be well, and have a great day.

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